How to CHOOSE the right oil for you for your E39 by bluebee

The problem is BMW LL-01 approved oil is listed on the can of very few motor oils readily available in the USA (e.g., the only Mobil-1 that is approved is the Mobil1 SAE 0w40 variety; and you might be able to find German-made Castrol Syntec SAE 0w30 European Formula if you're resourceful, or even Pentospeed SAE 0W30, or Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30, or Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30, etc. For more choices, please see this document listing the available LL-01/LL-04 motor oils available for sale in the USA.) 

Strictly speaking, in the USA, for E39s, LL-01 is all you need to know about quality. Never assume a brand name automatically equates to the desired quality. It doesn't. Never did. Never will. Not all Mobil1 oils are LL-01 approved, for example.

- If you can't find LL-01 rated oil, then some will tell you any fully synthetic oil rated ACEA A3/B3 or better meets BMW specifications; but again, the problem is finding an oil locally available that has ACEA A3/B3 printed on the can.

- Otherwise, historically, at least in the United States, the main reliable measure of quality has been the American Petroleum Institute (API) "Service" rating (buy API SL for older BMWs or API SM or better for newer BMWs) printed on every can of oil sold in the US. This more readily available API quality designation is chronological, i.e., SA, SB, SC, SD, SE, SF, SG, SH, SI, SJ, SK, SL, & SM. Over time, this API quality designation moved higher and higher in the alphabet as more and more problems are specified and overcome by the petroleum engineers (note SA is special in that it is unspecified, and note each specification exceeds the prior specification).

- Note that anyone who says "use Castrol" or "Mobil1", without suggesting the BMW or ACEA or API quality rating, isn't providing enough information to make the right quality decision for you; brand and price and label hype are meaningless for this purpose (for example, even some BMW-branded oils don't meet BMW specifications for M cars).

b) COLD START: Depending on where you live, pick an appropriate Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) winter (W) rating based on the range of temperatures you expect to start the car in while that oil is in the vehicle and on what is recommended in your owners manual.

It's a simple but important decision. If it's really cold where you start the BMW, use a lower SAE W rating; if it's warm, then use a higher SAE W rating (the point being to minimize the SAE spread, even for synthetics but especially for dino juice). Just remember the oil will be in the car for a few months so you have to factor in the coldest expected temperature during that time period.

Bear in mind, the SAE W rating only holds true for the first few minutes no matter what climate you live in. This rating is probably the least understood of all motor oil descriptors, but, since most wear occurs at startup, it's an important measure. Since engine oil viscosity decreases logarithmically with temperature, the SAE W rating of, say "SAE 10W", tells you that the oil "acts like" a straight SAE 10 weight oil would act at 0° Fahrenheit (°F). Remember, it is NEVER an SAE 10 weight oil! It just acts like an SAE 10 would at 0°F (i.e., before the engine is warmed up). After the engine is warm (212°F) the SAE W rating is meaningless. It is important to understand that a straight 30 weight oil acts exactly the same at engine temperatures as does a 5W30, or 10W30, or 15W30 motor oil. It is also important to understand the logarithmic decrease in viscosity still applies at all temperatures below 212°F, even though the only listed temperature is the 0°F W rating. See included charts for more details.

c) VISCOSITY: Depending on engine factors, you'll choose a warmed-up SAE oil viscosity (measured as kinematic or Saybolt) that suits you and your engine. Just pick a warmed-up viscosity that your owners manual lists as an option. That's pretty much it. 

People make a much bigger issue of selecting the warmed-up viscosity than they need to. In my humble opinion, if you don't already know, before you got here, exactly which warmed-up viscosity you prefer, then simply choose the warmed-up viscosity by one of the other factors below this one in the selection criteria. 

Bear in mind, it is known for dino juice the greater the spread between the SAE W rating and the SAE warmed-up rating (measured at 212°F), the greater the tendency of the dino oil to carbonize in your engine. Synthetics, I'm often told, do not have such a propensity to carbonize so the viscosity spread is much less of an issue. However, for dino juice, the simplest advice is to lean toward the closest multi-weight spread listed in your owners manual.

d) TYPE: Almost all BMW posters recommended synthetic motor oil for longevity, reduced wear and tear on gears, reduced incidence of oil oxidation, and lower sludge formation (as compared with similar quality traditional motor oils); but there are always tradeoffs, not the least of which are price considerations. 

In addition, the viscosity spread, if you're going with something like a 0W40, will tend to carbonize much less with synthetic than with dino juice. However, as with many of these factors, if you change your oil religiously, in my humble opinion, it really won't make that much of a difference even theoretically; and from a practical sense, it will make even less of a difference, mostly due to the cost differential balancing out the benefits.

e) COST: Duh. As low as you can get. Buy Internet. Buy bulk. Stock ahead. If you buy good-quality (as measured by the API or BMW rating) oil, brand is nearly meaningless (see Consumer Reports' canonical diatribe on motor oil quality consistency over time).

Note (thanks to 540M-Sport): One really needs to read the specification sheets which are available online for most oils. You will find pretty significant differences between 5W-30 synthetic oils, both in viscosity at cold start up, and at operating temperatures. 

More about LL-01 here ... 

If you want to truly be an oil expert, read here:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/aehaas/

5-30-2010

I'm perfectly happy with the Mobil1 5W30 & 5W40 synthetic (California almost never gets cold).

There is a great description of the reasons behind BMW owners-manual recommendations by edjack here in a recent thread. 

Basically, I conclude, if the viscosity range is within the BMW recommendations, and it meets the temperatures you'll expect between now and your next oil change, then, I conclude, it's perfectly fine for your E39.

6-1-2010

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport  The key data you need to look for is the "Viscosity @ 40 degrees C".

Good point. I don't doubt that this, and many other interesting and useful criteria are printed in the spec sheet. 

I should have noted that my recommendations assume you need to make a choice on two oils in the store based on what is printed on the can.

Given only these printed-on-the-can items:

- marketing rah rah

- brand name rah rah 

- SAE rating

- API rating

- any other rating printed on the can (e.g., LL or ACEA, etc.)

- price

how I'd choose the oil is listed in post #1 above.

If, however, we were comparing oils based on having all their spec sheets lined up, then I'll let you guys point out the major items to compare against as tradeoffs (as there would now be muuuch more information available to you).

8-5-2010

There are many opinions on motor oil selection and change interval.

When opinions vary, a good solution is simplicity.

Here's an excerpt from here that outlines the simplicity while taking into account the complexity:

Oil and Filter Intervals

BMW recommends their Castrol 5W-30 synthetic motor oil in all BMWs except contemporary M cars, for which they recommend their Castrol 10W-60 synthetic motor oil. The factory oil change interval is controlled electronically, but is presently about every 15,000 miles. If you are running BMW's oil, I recommend an oil and filter change interval between 5,000 and 7,500 miles.

I use Red Line synthetic oil (www.redlineoil.com) in 5W-30, 10W-40, 15W-50, or 20W-50, depending on factory recommendation, ambient temperatures, and severity of service (track use, sustained high rpm use), with a drain interval – 7,500 to 15,000 miles depending on engine and severity of service. Under racing or track conditions I'd use a short interval; same for carbureted engines which tend to get some fuel into the oil. I would run the same intervals with very high end "designer synthetics" such as Agip, Amsoil, Lubrication Engineers Monolec Ultra, Lubro Moly Vol-synthese, or Motul. 

All other commercially available synthetic oils, 5,000-7,500-mile drain intervals.

BMW's High Performance Synthethic 5W-30 and their Motorsport 10W-60 can go 7,500 miles.

Old fashioned petroleum oil, same viscosities, 3,000-to-5,000 mile drain intervals

The following information is courtesy of Motorwatch.com:

"Redline is Group V (polyol ester) based (POE or esters). 

"Amsoil and Mobil-1 are Group IV (poly-alpha olefin) based (PAO or synthesized hydrocarbons SHC). 

"Castrol Syntec and all the others calling themselves synthetic are Group III (hydrocracked slack wax). 

"The petroleum motor alls are all mineral oil based and make up Group II. 

"We really should group Red Line by itself, and put the others in separate categories (according to the groups) because their performance is so different. 

"See motorwatch>AutoMotiveBible>Oil Change Intervals>oil classifications

http://www.motorwatch.com/images/oilclassifications.jpg

"AutoMotiveBible> Oil Change Intervals>oil change intervals

http://www.motorwatch.com/images/oilchangeintervals.jpg"

Original BMW filters are recommended for price and quality, or MANN, Mahle, Bosch, or Knecht filters

10-30-2010

This summary guidance for selecting motor oil, from this thread today, is useful to repeat here:

Given the BMW "official" recommendations, I still buy oil by applying these criteria in the order listed:

1st. quality = highest API rating only (all others disregarded)

2nd. cold-start = expected ambient temperatures (desired SAE W rating)

3rd. warm viscosity = desired viscosity (desired SAE rating)

4th. slipperiness = type (synthetic or dino, both work, I go synthetic)

5th. cost = lowest available

6th. If necessary to break a tie, I limit the spread between #2 & #3

As cn90 intimated, in the end analysis, anything more complicated is overkill, keeping in mind, marketing people LOVE overkill when they can make something simple "sound" complex (PT Barnum was right), they can manipulate the price inversely proportionate to the stupidity of their consumer & directly proportional to the price of the investment (the engine) that is being protected.

1-19-2011

Hey! Guess what. I just had an epiphany!

Notice what you said. One one hand, you mention simple. On the other hand, you note that a definitive BMW-approved list already exists.

Hmmmmmmmmm........

I just realized, from another thread, that there are (might be?) THREE camps of knowledgeable people when they choose oil.

And, I'm assuming, if you're in one camp, you won't easily switch to another religious camp - yet - there will always be someone in another religious camp wanting to convert you.

Check out my newly forming hypothesis here:

• The three "oil" camps (no, this is not another "what oil should I use" thread)

2-6-2011

My revelations after reading this thread from Bill:

- Hey Blue, check out this great oil article-really

• Synthetic refers to "properties" and not ingredients nor how it's made (same with semi-synthetic, i.e. "the big lie").

• The stock oil lasts the life of the engine; viscosity breaks down fast.

• "Synthetic oils made from pure PAOs or Diesters hold viscosity longer.

• Minimize viscosity spread by DIVISION (not subtraction)!

• Just because it says API SM doesn't mean it has been tested to be an API SM (I still need a better description of the visual-identification cues to understand how to reliably tell the difference)!

I think there is only "all this debate" when people are of different religions:

- The three "oil" camps (no, this is not another "what oil should I use" thread)

Within any one religion, there is really very little debate!

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncmozo  I always use Mobil 1 5W30 anyway!

That's one of the worst, for viscosity spread. Just so you know.

30/5 = 6

If you used 10w30, that would have a viscosity spread of only 30/10 = 3.

15W30 would be even better (i.e., 30/15=2). 

Same spread as with 20w40 (i.e., 40/20=2).

But, in reality, the viscosity spread matters little (look at the BMW recommendation, for example, in post #4 above).

"All long life oils approved by BMW are suitable for operation at any ambient temperature. You consequently do not need to pay specific attention to the viscosity class".

You car will not blow up no matter what viscosity you use. Yes, wear and tear is mostly in the startup, and especially in cold temperatures, so, use your common sense. See, for example:

- What are the key factors that govern (all) our decisions when it comes to E39 fluids?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DominguesE30  0w oil in my m54b25?

Look at the BMW attachment in post #4. The viscosity choice, if reasonable, doesn't really matter. 

You seem to be in cold country, so 0w seems just fine; but, for folks like me, any common viscosity would work just fine. The only caveat I would add is to minimize the spread (divide the cold viscosity into the hot viscosity and minimize that number if at all possible).

Hmmm... I just realized ... that doesn't work with "0w" weights. So ummm.... how do you calculate the viscosity spread when the cold viscosity is zero?

3-16-2011

bluebee  Seek to understand,^Value Location: San Jose, California   Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 25,236 Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K View My Garage / user info For the record, this thread today: - Castrol vs. Bmw Got me thinking about adding a line to the bestlinks so that every question has an answer (over time) in the bestlinks: - Why does BMW mold "Use Castrol" on the oil filler cap (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) & what is the definitive list of BMW-approved motor oils (1) (aka BMWCurrentListing_of_SyntheticOils.pdf). Notice the marketing horseradish in the top and bottom of this link (below):  Castrol Motor Oil and Lubricants - BMW.pdf

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport  so get over it.

I'm not sure where you're going with that. I simply ask for the answer. That's all. And, I back up whatever answer is found, with whatever material is found. 

And, I already know the answer (from prior research).

All I was doing today was consolidating because someone asked, over here:

- Castrol vs. Bmw

To help 'that' person, I had to dig up these links. And, I 'hate' digging up links twice. So, if that is what you mean for me to 'get it over with', no, I'm sorry ... I refuse not to consolidate links so that every single question has a previous answer.

The entire goal is to start the inevitable NEXT similar question where we left off.

That's something I'm not going to 'get over' with. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport  It is up to each individual owner to decide if that weighs enough in their decision making process on whether they choose to purchase the "official" BMW branded oils, or simply purchase one of the other BMW "approved" oils,...Or in the alternative, they can simply buy whatever they like

I think we took this obvious assumption to the next level (which is the entire point of these combined discussions) when we began to discuss the various dogmatic decisions 'people' make when selecting their BMW oils:

- Fundamental BMW fluids decision-making religious camps (1) and algorithms specific to motor oil selection (1), coolant choice (1), & gasoline dogma (1) 

Again, that's the beauty of these forums.

When I started this thread, I was perplexed by the seemingly bewildering array of 'recommended oils'; but now, much later in the game, I realize that people fall into one of three major dogmatic camps.

And, they are in those camps, seemingly, for life. 

It's the wiring of their brain. Some wholeheartedly follow BMW recommendations (and that's OK); others find an equivalent, perhaps more convenient or more price effective solution (and that's OK); while the third group refuses to drink the Jim Jones punch and simply uses selection criteria that everyone else uses (and that's OK).

Quote:

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport  Remember the phrase is "BMW recommends Castrol"....BMW does not DICTATE or MANDATE.

I don't think anybody said otherwise so I'm not quite sure why you bring that up. 

All that matters, with regard to Castrol, is that people who see the molded oil-filter cap (or the ingenious BMW/Castrol joint-marketing blurbs), who are smart enough to ask the question of us, simply get the answer that we've determined.

Which is elucidated in these threads (AFAIK):

- Why does BMW mold "Use Castrol" on the oil filler cap (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) & what is the definitive list of BMW-approved motor oils (1)

If you know of BETTER threads that answer the question for newbies, as always, I'm all ears (and fingers).

Good luck!

3-17-2011

Again, I'm totally unsure where you're going with this. Sorry. 

To be clear, we have a reasonably definitive answer for what it means to the OP when he reads "Use Castrol" on the oil filler cap.

And, we have three reasonably definitive answers (depending on what 'religion' you subscribe to) to what oil you'd use.

• If you're in the first camp - you'd use only what BMW says to use.

• If you're in the second camp - you'd use that - or anything you deem reasonably equivalent.

• If you're in the third camp - you'd use all of the above - plus many others that are of reasonable quality based on well known and well used and well published standards.

So, from a 'definitive' standpoint, I think if someone asked me "what oil would I use", I'd have absolutely no problem.

The problem comes with someone asking me what oil YOU would use; or what oil "MatWiz" would use; or what oil "Doru" would use; or what oil cn90 would use (actually I know exactly what oil cn90 would use because he thinks like I do).

My point is you just can not answer that question until you know what religious punch the user wishes to subscribe to. Once you know that, it's easy to tell them which oil fits the criteria.

If that's what you mean by "definitive", well then, it's definitive as lone as you define the religious camp the "questioner" wants to live in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport  The only way to it is to drop your often repeated "dogma" term and start looking at this by DOCTRINE.

Well, we 'did' ask in the thread what to call it, whether it be 'camp' or 'dogma' or 'doctrine' or 'religion' or whatever. The camps will be the same no matter 'what' you call them (a rose is a rose ... ).

Call them categories. Call them thought models. Call them mind sets.

You can call it whatever you like. I use all those terms interchangeably. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport  The first information comes from the builder of the engine, they made it, and they should have a very good idea of what is required to ensure reliability and longevity

Ummm.. this is the same "builder of the car" who specified plastic DISA valves, plastic pulleys, a plastic cooling system, buton VANOS seals, recycled rubber window molding, idiotic FSUs, leaky thrust-arm bushings, ridiculous window regulators, asinine cluster & MID pixel tape, brittle PBT plastic headlight adjusters, poorly tack welded ABS control module steel wires, weak vapor barrier adhesive, 20K mile shocks, too-short wiring looms, fragile steering wheel & seat controllers, etc. (all that just from memory).

BMW gets no credit for engineering on any of those issues. But, what's your point?

1. Everyone in the 1st 'mind set' agrees with the BMW-approved list.

2. Everyone in the 2nd 'mind set' agrees with the BMW-approved list.

3. Everyone in the 3rd 'mind set' agrees with the BMW-approved list.

I don't see a single person 'disagreeing' with the BMW-approved list of motor oils to use in the E39. 

What I see, at both ends, is people in the first list disagreeing with everyone else - and people in the last list agreeing with everyone.

You just happen to (probably) be in the first list. That's all. It's pre-ordained, based on which list you're already in, by your very nature. And that's OK.

Since I'm in the third category, I think everyone is right. And that's OK.

The problem isn't you or me. We're set for life. (And that's OK.) Neither one of us is going to have an engine failure because of what oil we used. Never ever ever. It just isn't going to happen.

The problem is the confusion of the NEWBIE who asks "what oil?" and then gets lists of oils in the three different categories and then, confusingly to him, all the arguments in between (almost exclusively from those in the first category denouncing all the other thought models).

Nobody in the third category is doing the argument. I doubt anyone in the second category is either (all they do is select oils).

All the argument comes from those in the first category ... which is hilarious ... when you think of it ... 'cuz ... for them ... the decision is so very simple!

This is a philosophical discussion (not a technical one) that has far reaching social implications.

Here's my new epiphany:

- Those in the first 'mind set' argue AGAINST all other mind sets.

- Those in the second 'mind set' don't disagree; but they find additional oils meeting the same criteria.

- Likewise, those in the third 'mind set' agree with everyone above & choose their own oils based on standard criteria.

The epiphany is that almost all the argument seems to be coming from those in the first philosophical category who, it seems, just can't stand the mind set of the other two philosophies.

That, it appears (to me, just now), is the fundamental reason for the 'endless oil' arguments!

The only way for the arguments to end is for the first mind set to destroy the other two mind sets (which isn't going to happen); so the first mind set will propagate the argument forever. The other two mind sets aren't doing the endless arguing.

This, I think, may be a fundamental philosophical insight.

Agree? Disagree? Add value?

I must apologize for the tone of my prior couple of posts. I'm just sick and tired of the 'what oil' discussion. I'm OK with the 'what philosophy' discussion; but there is nobody on the planet who can MOVE anyone from one mind set to the other. It just won't (realistically) happen anymore than I can talk a Jew into being a Christian or a Muslim.

It's my opinion, after reading hundreds of 'what oil' threads, that the oil people choose has more to do with the way their brain is wired than anything we will ever say in these forums. 

And, what oil they use can be predicted with almost 100% certainty (within a range of equivalents, of course) if you know what 'mind set' the person belongs to.

• BMW-approved oils only

• BMW-approved oils and similar oils only

• BMW-approved oils and similar oils and quality oils only

So, it just irked me that anyone would even think to try to move me out of my 'mind set' with ANY argument, let alone the argument that the pope knows best (it's just not going to happen and my car isn't going to blow up either because of it). 

So, I apologize for my tone. Knowing all that I know now, I absolutely refuse to get into a 'what oil' discussion (other than to point people to the mind-set descriptions to let them choose their own religion).

Anyway, as a courtesy, I will address your points directly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport  There is a big difference between Doctrine and Dogma.

As I said, the oil mind sets can be called whatever anyone wants to call them (they would still be the same). I used 'em interchangeably as I'm rather secular. It really doesn't matter to me what the 'camps' are called.

But, for the record, here is a google result of the doctrine vs dogma:

- Doctrine: What the church believes is truth;

- Dogma: What the church proposes as truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport  I try to make my choices on vehicle maintenance based on Doctrine, not Dogma.

I guess, converting this to BMW, that makes sense from 'your' standpoint:

- Doctrine: What BMW (the pope) believes is truth;

- Dogma: What BMW (the pope) proposes as truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport  Thus, I avoid the philisophical , and stay technical.

Ah, you're missing the point. Either that, or you're arguing with the absolutely wrong person. Because I refuse to get into a 'what oil' argument now that I've researched this and tried to boil down hundreds of 'what oil' threads into a cohesive 'what oil' thread (I'm no longer the same idealist that started this thread).

When I started this holy quest for the right way to choose oil for your BMW, I was wholly unaware that the result would be impossible because of differences in the people's inherent belief systems.

4. Jew

5. Christian

6. Muslim

You can argue all the technical dogma/doctrine you want but you're never going to convert a Muslim into a Jew (at least not realistically). That's precisely why there is so much "which oil" argument here! People don't realize this is a dogmatic discussion! It can never end. 

All I will say from now on is that the belief systems exist. And I'll characterize them, but not the oil to use because that easily falls out of the belief system itself:

• BMW-approved oils only

• BMW-approved oils and similar oils only

• BMW-approved oils and similar oils and quality oils only

The reason for the endless 'what oil' discussions is that people are wired for different decisions when the end result really doesn't matter. If, for example, people were putting in Marvel Mystery Oil into their oil, no matter what they believed as truth, the real truth would end up with a ruined engine. 

They'd learn the real truth, the hard way.

But, as with all religious arguments, there IS NO REAL TRUTH when it comes to what oil is best for your BMW! (You 'think' you know the truth; but so does everyone else. And you don't agree. And, it doesn't matter because nobody is putting Marvel Mystery Oil in there. They're all putting decent oil in their engine.)

Do you see what I'm saying? The whole problem is that the philosophies (or mind sets or religions, or whatever you want to call the wiring in people's brain) falls into THREE categories:

a) Those who use what BMW says to use

b) Those who use that plus what seems similar

c) Those who use those two plus whatever else works just as well

After all this research, my only role on bimmerfest, from now 'till the day I die, is to advise people of those three 'mind sets'.

You don't get to choose your mind set anymore than you chose your religion (for the most part, it is foisted upon you by your belief system).

So, if you're of the first mindset, then 'you know' exactly what oils to use; and if you're in the second mindset, then you know exactly what oils to use plus you'll find equivalent oils; and if you're in the third mindset, you'll have all of those oils plus anything else that works to use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport  they know considerably more about the engine and its requirements than you, I or anyone else is likely to ever know....that is a fact.

It is. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport  They have also taken into consideration many factors that we may not have ever even thought of.

You believe in the infallibility of the BMW god. And that's OK. I don't. And that's OK. 

Just like religion, the real proof is that nobody is dying because of which religion they chose (yeah yeah, I know, they're being KILLED by each other but that's not what I mean).

It turns out cn90 and I are not ruining out engines by using the oil that we chose to put in there, the fact that BMW knows engines notwithstanding. 

If I chose to be a Christian or a Jew, the 'real' God wouldn't be sending lightning bolts down on me any more than the God of Engines will destroy my engine because I just today put Mobil1 5W30 from Costco.

So, the whole point of arguing oils (just like arguing religions) is pointless. 

Let the people choose their own religion and let them choose their own oil. It won't make a difference either way. 

Nobody's engine is blowing up either way.

9-26-2011

For the record, in response to a 'what brand of oil' question over here:

- E46 (1999 - 2006) > First Oil change (brand of OIL)

One reply was:

Quote:

10-7-2011

Originally Posted by bluebee  If someone asks 'which oil', we merely need to determine 'which doctrine', each of which has their clearly defined favorite oils!

I realized, after handling scores of these 'what oil' threads, that if someone actually asks what oil, they 'probably' (based on anecdotal evidence) want you to give them the BMW-approved list.

The second group never asks, other than to doublecheck their comprehensive calculations.

And the third group can read the 'quality' on the can so they don't ask either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newbie528  I believe Cn90 knows what he's talking about...

Yes. He's pragmatic. Logical. And sane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newbie528  I just use any oil as long as it's "good".

That's logical for the third group of people in this group; yet it's anathema to the other two! 

a) Use only bmw-approved oils (based on LL standards)

b) Use only bmw-approved & similar oils (based on LL standards and specs)

c) Use only bmw-approved & similar oils & any other 'good' quality oil (based on LL standards and specs and other well-established standards)

Originally Posted by oilsschmoils  What utter bollocks! There's a specific spec in the owners manual (LL01) and it even mentions the temporary use of ACEA A3,B3 oil (0/5W30 or 0/5W40) when LL01 isn't available. But wait I forgot that BMWNA forgot to put that info into the U.S owners manual, and consequently we have all this confusion, but on U.S BMW forums. BMWNA have a lot to answer for.

That recent post above from this thread below:

- E46 (1999 - 2006) > First Oil change (brand of OIL)

The response:

Quote:

10-8-2011

Originally Posted by Newbie528  Many people mentioned the Mobil1 5-30W also.... BUT it's not LL-01 approved.