IT RUNS!!! - My 500whp build - Element motor and Moore Performance Twin Scroll Kit! by dexterous

10 minute(s) of a 312 minute read

I just logged a really short low boost pull after making a few trim corrections to the injectors. Obviously this is the average of all four but do you guys think this is too lean on boost?

timestamp tps (%) engine speed (rpm) AFR/LMBD (ratio) boost (psi) wastegate PID (%) knock ret. (deg.) knock ramp (V) advance (deg.) coolant temp (F) duty cycle (%) fuel pulse (ms) vacuum (mmHg) batt volts (V) load spread (%) rpm spread (%) vcti1 PID (%)
29796031.2410013.380000.329177.8123.238.7413.82841.638.8
29800031.6410013.380000.4229179.612.43.229.813.828.441.638.8
29806431.6410013.520000.3629179.6123.229.813.8284238.4
29812832415013.520000.3428.5179.611.63.244.713.8284238.4
29819232415013.670000.4429179.611.62.8862.5813.8227.242.438
29825631.6415013.670000.3629179.6123.253.6413.827.242.438.8
29832031.6420013.820000.329.5179.612.43.244.713.827.642.838.8
29838431.6415013.670000.3229.5179.612.43.238.7413.8227.642.438.4
29844831.6420013.820000.4429.5179.6123.241.7213.827.642.838
29851231.6420013.820000.3629179.6123.241.7213.822843.237.6
29857631.6420013.820000.3628.5179.6123.244.713.82843.238.4
29864032425013.820000.2829179.611.62.8868.5413.827.243.637.6
29870431.6425013.820000.229179.6122.8859.613.7827.643.638
29876831.6425013.970000.2629.5179.6123.268.5413.826.843.638
29883231.6425013.820000.2829.5179.612.83.250.6613.827.24439.2
29889631.6430013.670000.2429.5179.612.83.241.7213.782844.438.8
29896040.4430013.820000.2829179.614.83.845.9613.7629.244.439.2
29900054430014.111.84000.2821.5179.618.85.12013.7634.844.841.6
29906455.2430013.972.469200.2220.5179.619.65.12013.7836.444.842.8
29912855.6435013.232.469200.2619.5179.619.24.8013.763645.642.4
29919256.4435012.53.6890.800.2819179.619.65.12013.7436.845.642.8
29925656.4440012.24.390.400.419179.621.25.12013.7636.84642
29932056.8440012.24.919000.5418.5179.6225.44013.7838.446.440.8
29938456.8440012.355.5389.200.3417.5179.622.45.76013.838.846.440
29944856.8445012.26.1488.400.3217.5179.623.25.76013.840.446.838
29951256.8450011.915.5389.200.2417.5179.622.85.44013.784047.636.4
29957656.8450011.916.758800.2417.5179.625.26.08013.842.847.634.4
29964056.4450012.056.758800.3217.5179.625.26.4013.843.648.432.4
29970454455011.916.758800.317179.6266.4013.7844.448.431.6
29976849.2455011.767.3787.600.2417179.626.86.4013.844.448.831.2
29983245.2460011.616.758800.4217179.6266.08013.843.249.233.6
29989644460011.617.3787.600.4216.5179.625.66.08013.843.249.632.8
29996043.6460011.617.3787.600.316.5179.624.85.76013.7843.249.632.4
30000043.2465011.617.9886.800.2416179.625.66.08013.844.450.432.4
30006441.6465011.616.758800.416179.625.26.08013.8244.850.432
30012841.6470011.616.758800.3216.5179.6266.4013.845.250.832.4
30019241.2470011.766.758800.2816.5179.627.26.4013.784651.232.8
30025641.6475011.767.3787.600.316.5179.6286.72013.845.251.632.8
30032041.2475011.618.686.400.3416179.6286.4013.844.45233.6
30038441.2475011.618.686.400.5216179.626.46.4013.7843.65234.4
30044839.6480011.767.9886.800.416179.627.66.72013.846.852.836
30051238.8480011.767.3787.200.416.5179.627.66.4013.784652.836.4
30057637.2485011.767.3787.600.4216179.627.66.4013.7844.853.636.8
30064036.8485011.767.3787.600.316.5179.626.86.08013.842.85437.6
30070436.4485011.616.7587.600.416.5179.625.65.76013.7843.25438.4
30076836.8490011.916.1488.400.317179.6266.08013.7843.654.439.6
30083236.4490012.056.1488.400.2817.5179.626.86.08013.7843.654.840
30089634.8495012.056.758800.3617179.6265.76013.784255.240.8
30096032.4495012.054.9189.600.3617.5179.624.85.44013.841.655.241.2
30100032.4495012.054.39000.519179.6245.44013.7839.655.642.4
30106432.4495012.054.9189.600.4418.5179.624.85.44013.78385642.8
30112832500012.24.390.400.3219.5179.623.25.12013.7837.65642.4
30119232.4500012.353.0791.600.3820179.622.85.12013.7837.256.442.4
30125632.4500012.53.0791.600.3420179.623.25.12013.763656.842.4
30132032.4505012.643.6890.800.3620179.6224.8013.763656.841.2
30138432.4505012.642.469200.4420.5179.621.65.12013.7636.456.841.2
30144832.4505012.643.0791.600.3220179.623.64.8013.7836.457.640.4
30151232505012.793.0791.600.3220179.621.64.48013.7635.257.639.6
30157627.6510012.791.23000.321.5179.620.84.48013.7835.257.638.8
30164018505012.940000.3430179.611.62.2462.5813.826.857.238.4
30170410.8505012.50000.3832179.65.20.96402.313.813.656.830
3017680505011.470000.2831.5179.62.40.32548.3213.847.656.826.8
3018320500011.760000.723.5179.61.20628.7813.864.856.423.2
3018960485011.910000.5819.5179.60.80658.5813.93.652.816.8
3019600465011.760000.3417.5179.60.80667.5213.93.65016
3020000450012.20000.4216.5179.60.80658.5813.93.647.614.8
3020640430012.790000.417179.60.80655.613.92444.45.6
3021280415013.970000.3417.5179.60.80655.613.944420
3021924.8400015.140000.2619.5179.61.20628.7813.924.439.60
30225614380017.050000.2434179.62.80.64521.513.928.8360
30232019.2365018.080000.2234.5179.640.96417.213.9413.233.60
30238420.8355018.670000.3834.5179.65.61.6295.0213.9417.633.225.2
30244820.8355019.550000.334.5179.661.6274.1613.918.832.429.2
30251221.2360018.520000.3634.5181.46.41.92244.3613.842032.835.2
30257621.2355016.320000.2434.5181.46.41.92256.2813.8419.232.440.8
30264020.8355015.580000.2634.5181.46.41.92238.413.8419.632.445.2

As a temporary fix to my fueling issue I used the Hydra's injector trim in attempt to even the motor out. I added 3% to the lean side and took 3% away from the rich side. My thinking was that the average AFRs were fairly close to target and if I just trimmed one bank it would throw the fuel base map off pretty bad. I went for a drive just like Phil instructed me the other day and pulled the plugs after. It actually appears that the balance shifted slightly as the drivers side seemed slightly leaner. I am going to repeat the test with 2% up and 2% down to see if that makes them a touch closer.

This basically gives me an idea that there's about a 4-5% difference between the banks. The next step is to try swapping injectors and then moving to series to see if that makes a difference.

One more thing. Regardless if I trim the injectors or not, I have noticed that my motor idles rougher and rougher the leaner it gets. At 11.5:1 the motor had a stock like feel as it was buttery smooth. At 13.5:1 the motor is noticeably rougher and kind of reminds me of an old high performance muscle car. Is this normal?

5-29-2012

Its a pretty common design for fuel systems like the one I have. The pumps all have very large outputs like -10 and -12. My setup includes a -10 from the fuel pump up to the fuel distribution "Y" fitting. This helps reduce pressure drop as the line runs to the front of the car.

5-29-2012

Just to be sure you guys are following me:

6-2-2012

Sorry guys, I am out of town and haven't checked the thread in a few days. Like many of you, I have been highly suspicious of the return side of my fuel system between the rails and the FPR. The design idea behind the T fitting came from looking at other cars that seem to work well including the Element Tuning race car. As far as I know, Phil only has one side of his FPR hooked up. I am planning on calling Aeromotive to see what they have to say early next week about the internal dampening capability of the FPR. If it has the ability to dampen both sides independently then that may be a good solution that would prevent me from having to go to a series feed system.*

As for the A1000 pump, I used it because it was common with people who had high HP cars. It's also the same pump Phil uses on the Element race car. There's a controller in the mix so it's only pushing max flow under boost.

6-6-2012

I spent some time talking to a tuner from another shop today in reference to my issues and something fairly interesting came up. He recently had a fairly similar situation with a car in his shop which had very fouled plugs on one side and idled rough. The issue turned out to be the AVCS solenoid which is a fairly easy fix. Since the issue with this other car didn't show up on a compression test (no/low oil pressure) I would suspect that it wouldn't show up on my car either.

I have another solenoid on its way and I will update you guys as soon as its here.

6-7-2012

Yes, thats correct. I can only see one side of the cams. Way back when I first noticed that I was having issues Phil suggested that this may be the cause. Since my Hydra 2.6 cant log both of the cams concurrently I have no visibility into what the solenoids are doing. The Hydra 2.7 has this capability as it now reads both the driver and passenger cam sensors. I was honestly somewhat disappointed to learn that the 2.6 couldn't do this since the factory ECU, the AEM, Vipec and many other ECUs can.

Its a 600 upgrade form the 2.6 to the 2.7 but theirs a wait time AND I will totally loose my ECU map since they dont transfer.

6-10-2012

I pulled both AVCS solenoids today and marked each. I also borrowed a 3rd solenoid form a friend who had a spare. I visually inspected each solenoid and all appeared to be identical. I researched the solenoids and discovered that they didn't have any polarity to the wiring so I ran power across the pins on each and carefully observed the response. All three solenoids moved identically which makes me believe that neither of my solenoids are bad.

I went to my computer and googled "stuck avcs" and found many accounts of people with very similar situations (fouled plugs on one side and rough idle). It was about a 50/50 mix between those with stuck solenoids and those with failed avcs gears. I keep thinking if only I could drop my stock ECU back in I could log the car.

Speaking of the stock ECU, here are the challenges that I see with going back. Obviously each of these could be overcome (at a price) but there's a lot of work and money to be spent getting there.

Low Impedance Injectors - I currently have a set of Ultimate Racing's 1260cc Low Impedance Injectors installed. The stock ECU cant run these without resistor packs.

Proprietary Injector Form Factor - The ultimate racing kit places a TOP feed injector into a SIDE feed TGV housing. It also uses a custom fuel rail that places the injectors at the proper height for the side feed TGVs. To swap injectors I need to swap TGVs and rails which is a total PITA.

Meth control - My highly customized meth system can't be run without the standalone. I would have to change to something else at a high cost. The though of a non-ecu integrated meth solution makes me very nervous as reliability is pretty poor as one mishap could be catastrophic.

High compression - I run a 9.8:1 compression motor with either needs 50/50 meth, E85 or race gas to run properly on boost. E85 isn't an option because its not sold where I live. Race gas is available at a station 10 miles away but that would seriously limit the car's range and drastically increase its operating cost.

No O2 sensors - I know that this could be overcome by relocating the stock sensor but that would be a PITA.

No MAF sensor / no location for the sensor - I know that the Access Port has speed density functionality so his may not be that big of an issue.

Inadequate stock MAP sensor - This would need upgraded.

Fuel pump controller - My fuel pump is integrated into the Hydra based on load triggers. I suppose I could move to a high quality boost switch but this could be a major failure point.

6-11-2012

I just added another one to the list of stock ECU issues (fuel pump controller). Basically, the big hurdle is the lack of inputs and outputs on the stock ECU. If I didn't have those damn 9.8:1 pistons I could figure something out.

6-24-2012

Guys,

After weeks of careful consideration, advice from close friends and many comments from supporters such as you guys, I have decided to change directions a bit. I am not sure if I have mentioned it or not but I live over five and a half hours away form Phil / Element. As we all know, my car has some kind of imbalance problem causing rough idle and two cylinders to foul the spark plugs. Since Phil is so far away we are somewhat limited in our support options. I could tow the car down there for Element to work on, leave it and pick it up at a later time but that would be very inconvenient and very costly. Even if the problem that I am currently fighting didn't occur after startup, getting the car tuned so far away by the most expensive tuner that I am aware of is problematic. Again, I live five and a half hours away form Phil and by the time I transport the car down there and pay for his tuning fees its well over $1500 per tuning attempt. Since I did this four times last year (OMFG thats a lot of money!!!) I just cant afford to have an issue like this again.

Phil has and always will be a fantastic tuner to work with. Over the years he has helped me out of countless jams, talked me off the ledge may times and done a fantastic job tuning my car. When the motor blew up
last year he was REALLY there for me, if it wasn't for him I would have never gotten home that night (5.5 hours away). Unfortunately, due to my situation I am afraid that I am going to have to work with one of the
nearby shops for at least for the rest of this year. Basically, I need LOCAL support and a local tuner to assist in getting the car sorted out, I feel that this is a primary need to move this project forward. Unfortunately, I
am in an area where absolutely nobody will touch a car running a Hydra. This situation leaves me no choice but to move back to the factory ECU so that I may obtain local support.

In post 1678 I outlined a number of design considerations that require my car to run a standalone ECU. I THINK I have each of these things worked out. If you see an issue or have a concern PLEASE speak up. Thanks!
Tom

Here's my plan to address the various issues listed in post 1679:

Low Impedance Injectors - I am moving to Injector Dynamics 2000cc low impedance injectors (ID2000s)

Proprietary Injector Form Factor - I am moving to stock WRX TGV risers (TGVs deleted) and Aeromotive fuel rails

Meth control - I am not going to run meth until further notice. (see the next topic)

High compression Octane needs - I am going to run a 50/50 mix of 93oct and 110oct race fuel which should yield close to 112oct. As a safety, I am going to have the car tuned on a 60/40 mix of pump 93 to 110 which should be around 100oct. I am also going to get a 93oct map made so that I can transport the car as needed.

No O2 sensors - I am installing an innovative LC1 and adding another bung for the factory ECU's front O2 in the down pipe.

No MAF sensor / no location for the sensor - I am going to run AccessPort speed density plus an GM IAT sensor

Inadequate stock MAP sensor - I am going to run an AEM 3.5 Bar MAP sensor

Fuel pump controller - I designed the fuel pump setup so that if I simply unplugged the wire between the Hydra and the controller it will run at 100% duty. I am going to change the logic box in the back and run it off of a simple boost switch. 2psi and above = 100% duty, 1.99psi and below = low duty (same value that I run now for idle).